Platonismo

This page is read only. You can view the source, but not change it. Ask your administrator if you think this is wrong.
===== JOWETT: PHAEDRUS 234C-237A: INTERMEZZO =====
Veja também: Coletânea de excertos da obra completa de Platão, na tradução de Jowett, indexados por termos relevantes

Soc. Yes, quite admirable ; the effect on me was ravishing. And this I owe to you, Phaedrus, for I observed you while reading to be in an ecstasy, and thinking that you are more experienced in these matters than I am, I followed your example, and, like you, my divine darling, I became inspired with a phrenzy.

Phaedr. Indeed, you are pleased to be merry.

Soc. Do you mean that I am not in earnest ?

Phaedr. Now don’t talk in that way, Socrates, but let me have your real opinion ; I adjure you, by Zeus, the god of friendship, to tell me whether you think that any Hellene could have said more or spoken better on the same subject.

Soc. Well, but are you and I expected to praise the sentiments of the author, or only the clearness, and roundness, and finish, and tournure of the language ? As to the first I willingly submit to your better judgment, for I am not worthy to form an opinion, having only attended to the rhetorical manner ; and I was doubting whether this could have been defended even by Lysias himself ; I thought, though I speak under correction, that he repeated himself two or three times, either from want of words or from want of pains ; and also, he appeared to me ostentatiously to exult in showing how well he could say the same thing in two or three ways.

Phaedr. Nonsense, Socrates ; what you call repetition was the especial merit of the speech ; for he omitted no topic of which the subject rightly allowed, and I do not think that any one could have spoken better or more exhaustively.

Soc. There I cannot go along with you. Ancient sages, men and women, who have spoken and written of these things, would rise up in judgment against me, if out of complaisance I assented to you.

Phaedr. Who are they, and where did you hear anything better than this ?

Soc. I am sure that I must have heard ; but at this moment I do not remember from whom ; perhaps from Sappho the fair, or Anacreon the wise ; or, possibly, from a prose writer. Why do I say so ? Why, because I perceive that my bosom is full, and that I could make another speech as good as that of Lysias, and different. Now I am certain that this is not an invention of my own, who am well aware that I know nothing, and therefore I can only infer that I have been filled through the cars, like a pitcher, from the waters of another, though I have actually forgotten in my stupidity who was my informant.

Phaedr. That is grand : — but never mind where you beard the discourse or from whom ; let that be a mystery not to be divulged even at my earnest desire. Only, as you say, promise to make another and better oration, equal in length and entirely new, on the same subject ; and I, like the nine Archons, will promise to set up a golden image at Delphi, not only of myself, but of you, and as large as life.

Soc. You are a dear golden ass if you suppose me to mean that Lysias has altogether missed the mark, and that I can make a speech from which all his arguments are to be excluded. The worst of authors will say something which is to the point. Who, for example, could speak on this thesis of yours without praising the discretion of the non-lover and blaming the indiscretion of the lover ? These are the commonplaces of the subject which must come in (for what else is there to be said ?) and must be allowed and excused ; the only merit is in the arrangement of them, for there can be none in the invention ; but when you leave the commonplaces, then there may be some originality.

Phaedr. I admit that there is reason in what you say, and I too will be reasonable, and will allow you to start with the premiss that the lover is more disordered in his wits than the non-lover ; if in what remains you make a longer and better speech than Lysias, and use other arguments, then I say again, that a statue you shall have of beaten gold, and take your place by the colossal offerings of the Cypselids at Olympia.

Soc. How profoundly in earnest is the lover, because to tease him I lay a finger upon his love ! And so, Phaedrus, you really imagine that I am going to improve upon the ingenuity of Lysias ?

Phaedr. There I have you as you had me, and you must just speak “as you best can.” Do not let us exchange “tu quoque” as in a farce, or compel me to say to you as you said to me, “I know Socrates as well as I know myself, and he was wanting to speak, but he gave himself airs.” Rather I would have you consider that from this place we stir not until you have unbosomed yourself of the speech ; for here are we all alone, and I am stronger, remember, and younger than you — Wherefore perpend, and do not compel me to use violence.

Soc. But, my sweet Phaedrus, how ridiculous it would be of me to compete with Lysias in an extempore speech ! He is a master in his art and I am an untaught man.

Phaedr. You see how matters stand ; and therefore let there be no more pretences ; for, indeed, I know the word that is irresistible.

Soc. Then don’t say it.

Phaedr. Yes, but I will ; and my word shall be an oath. “I say, or rather swear” — but what god will be witness of my oath ? — “By this plane-tree I swear, that unless you repeat the discourse here in the face of this very plane-tree, I will never tell you another ; never let you have word of another !”

Soc. Villain I am conquered ; the poor lover of discourse has no more to say.

Phaedr. Then why are you still at your tricks ?

Soc. I am not going to play tricks now that you have taken the oath, for I cannot allow myself to be starved.

Phaedr. Proceed.

Soc. Shall I tell you what I will do ?

Phaedr. What ?

Soc. I will veil my face and gallop through the discourse as fast as I can, for if I see you I shall feel ashamed and not know what to say.

{{indexmenu>.#1|skipns=/^playground|^wiki/ nsonly}}