These were pretty nearly the expressions which I used ; and Euthydemus, in a manly and at the same time encouraging tone, replied : There can be no objection, Socrates, if the young man is only willing to answer questions.
He is quite accustomed to do so, I replied ; for his friends often come and ask him questions and argue with him ; and therefore he is quite at home in answering.
What followed, Crito, how can I rightly narrate ? For not slight is the task of rehearsing infinite wisdom, and therefore, like the poets, I ought to commence my relation with an invocation to Memory and the Muses. Now Euthydemus, if I remember rightly, began nearly as follows : O Cleinias, are those who learn the wise or the ignorant ?
The youth, overpowered by the question blushed, and in his perplexity looked at me for help ; and I, knowing that he was disconcerted, said : Take courage, Cleinias, and answer like a man whichever you think ; for my belief is that you will derive the greatest benefit from their questions.
Whichever he answers, said Dionysodorus, leaning forward so as to catch my ear, his face beaming with laughter, I prophesy that he will be refuted, Socrates.
While he was speaking to me, Cleinias gave his answer : and therefore I had no time to warn him of the predicament in which he was placed, and he answered that those who learned were the wise.
Euthydemus proceeded : There are some whom you would call teachers, are there not ?
The boy assented.
And they are the teachers of those who learn — the grammar-master and the lyre master used to teach you and other boys ; and you were the learners ?
Yes.
And when you were learners you did not as yet know the things which you were learning ?
No, he said.
And were you wise then ?
No, indeed, he said.
But if you were not wise you were unlearned ?
Certainly.
You then, learning what you did not know, were unlearned when you were learning ?
The youth nodded assent.
Then the unlearned learn, and not the wise, Cleinias, as you imagine.
At these words the followers of Euthydemus, of whom I spoke, like a chorus at the bidding of their director, laughed and cheered. Then, before the youth had time to recover his breath, Dionysodorus cleverly took him in hand, and said : Yes, Cleinias ; and when the grammar master dictated anything to you, were they the wise boys or the unlearned who learned the dictation ?
The wise, replied Cleinias.
Then after all the wise are the learners and not the unlearned ; and your last answer to Euthydemus was wrong.
Then once more the admirers of the two heroes, in an ecstasy at their wisdom, gave vent to another peal of laughter, while the rest of us were silent and amazed. Euthydemus, observing this, determined to persevere with the youth ; and in order to heighten the effect went on asking another similar question, which might be compared to the double turn of an expert dancer. Do those, said he, who learn, learn what they know, or what they do not know ?
Again Dionysodorus whispered to me : That, Socrates, is just another of the same sort.
Good heavens, I said ; and your last question was so good !
Like all our other questions, Socrates, he replied — inevitable.
I see the reason, I said, why you are in such reputation among your disciples.
Meanwhile Cleinias had answered Euthydemus that those who learned learn what they do not know ; and he put him through a series of questions the same as before.
Do you not know letters ?
He assented.
All letters ?
Yes.
But when the teacher dictates to you, does he not dictate letters ?
To this also he assented.
Then if you know all letters, he dictates that which you know ?
This again was admitted by him.
Then, said the other, you do not learn that which he dictates ; but he only who does not know letters learns ?
Nay, said Cleinias ; but I do learn.
Then, said he, you learn what you know, if you know all the letters ?
He admitted that.
Then, he said, you were wrong in your answer.
The word was hardly out of his mouth when Dionysodorus took up the argument, like a ball which he caught, and had another throw at the youth. Cleinias, he said, Euthydemus is deceiving you. For tell me now, is not learning acquiring knowledge of that which one learns ?
Cleinias assented.
And knowing is having knowledge at the time ?
He agreed.
And not knowing is not having knowledge at the time ?
He admitted that.
And are those who acquire those who have or have not a thing ?
Those who have not.
And have you not admitted that those who do not know are of the number of those who have not ?
He nodded assent.
Then those who learn are of the class of those who acquire, and not of those who have ?
He agreed.
Then, Cleinias, he said, those who do not know learn, and not those who know.