Ion. That is good, Socrates ; and yet I doubt whether you will ever have eloquence enough to persuade me that I praise Homer only when I am mad and possessed ; and if you could hear me speak of him I am sure you would never think this to be the case.
Soc. I should like very much to hear you, but not until you have answered a question which I have to ask. On what part of Homer do you speak well ? — not surely about every part.
Ion. There is no part, Socrates, about which I do not speak well of that I can assure you.
Soc. Surely not about things in Homer of which you have no knowledge ?
Ion. And what is there in Homer of which I have no knowledge ?
Soc. Why, does not Homer speak in many passages about arts ? For example, about driving ; if I can only remember the lines I will repeat them.
Ion. I remember, and will repeat them.
Soc. Tell me then, what Nestor says to Antilochus, his son, where he bids him be careful of the turn at the horse — race in honour of Patroclus.
Ion. He says : Bend gently in the polished chariot to the left of them, and urge the horse on the right hand with whip and voice ; and slacken the rein. And when you are at the goal, let the left horse draw near, yet so that the nave of the well — wrought wheel may not even seem to touch the extremity ; and avoid catching the stone.
Soc. Enough. Now, Ion, will the charioteer or the physician be the better judge of the propriety of these lines ?
Ion. The charioteer, clearly.
Soc. And will the reason be that this is his art, or will there be any other reason ?
Ion. No, that will be the reason.
Soc. And every art is appointed by God to have knowledge of a certain work ; for that which we know by the art of the pilot we do not know by the art of medicine ?
Ion. Certainly not.
Soc. Nor do we know by the art of the carpenter that which we know by the art of medicine ?
Ion. Certainly not.
Soc. And this is true of all the arts ; — that which we know with one art we do not know with the other ? But let me ask a prior question : You admit that there are differences of arts ?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. You would argue, as I should, that when one art is of one kind of knowledge and another of another, they are different ?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Yes, surely ; for if the subject of knowledge were the same, there would be no meaning in saying that the arts were different, — if they both gave the same knowledge. For example, I know that here are five fingers, and you know the same. And if I were to ask whether I and you became acquainted with this fact by the help of the same art of arithmetic, you would acknowledge that we did ?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Tell me, then, what I was intending to ask you — whether this holds universally ? Must the same art have the same subject of knowledge, and different arts other subjects of knowledge ?
Ion. That is my opinion, Socrates.
Soc. Then he who has no knowledge of a particular art will have no right judgment of the sayings and doings of that art ?
Ion. Very true.
Soc. Then which will be a better judge of the lines which you were reciting from Homer, you or the charioteer ?
Ion. The charioteer.
Soc. Why, yes, because you are a rhapsode and not a charioteer.
Ion. Yes.
Soc. And the art of the rhapsode is different from that of the charioteer ?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. And if a different knowledge, then a knowledge of different matters ?
Ion. True.
Soc. You know the passage in which Hecamede, the concubine of Nestor, is described as giving to the wounded Machaon a posset, as he says, Made with Pramnian wine ; and she grated cheese of goat’s milk with a grater of bronze, and at his side placed an onion which gives a relish to drink. Now would you say that the art of the rhapsode or the art of medicine was better able to judge of the propriety of these lines ?
Ion. The art of medicine.
Soc. And when Homer says, And she descended into the deep like a leaden plummet, which, set in the horn of ox that ranges in the fields, rushes along carrying death among the ravenous fishes, — will the art of the fisherman or of the rhapsode be better able to judge whether these lines are rightly expressed or not ?
Ion. Clearly, Socrates, the art of the fisherman.
Soc. Come now, suppose that you were to say to me : “Since you, Socrates, are able to assign different passages in Homer to their corresponding arts, I wish that you would tell me what are the passages of which the excellence ought to be judged by the prophet and prophetic art” ; and you will see how readily and truly I shall answer you. For there are many such passages, particularly in the Odyssey ; as, for example, the passage in which Theoclymenus the prophet of the house of Melampus says to the suitors : — Wretched men ! what is happening to you ? Your heads and your faces and your limbs underneath are shrouded in night ; and the voice of lamentation bursts forth, and your cheeks are wet with tears. And the vestibule is full, and the court is full, of ghosts descending into the darkness of Erebus, and the sun has perished out of heaven, and an evil mist is spread abroad. And there are many such passages in the Iliad also ; as for example in the description of the battle near the rampart, where he says : — As they were eager to pass the ditch, there came to them an omen : a soaring eagle, holding back the people on the left, bore a huge bloody dragon in his talons, still living and panting ; nor had he yet resigned the strife, for he bent back and smote the bird which carried him on the breast by the neck, and he in pain let him fall from him to the ground into the midst of the multitude. And the eagle, with a cry, was borne afar on the wings of the wind. These are the sort of things which I should say that the prophet ought to consider and determine.
Ion. And you are quite right, Socrates, in saying so.
Soc. Yes, Ion, and you are right also. And as I have selected from the Iliad and Odyssey for you passages which describe the office of the prophet and the physician and the fisherman, do you, who know Homer so much better than I do, Ion, select for me passages which relate to the rhapsode and the rhapsode’s art, and which the rhapsode ought to examine and judge of better than other men.
Ion. All passages, I should say, Socrates.
Soc. Not all, Ion, surely. Have you already forgotten what you were saying ? A rhapsode ought to have a better memory.
Ion. Why, what am I forgetting ?
Soc. Do you not remember that you declared the art of the rhapsode to be different from the art of the charioteer ?
Ion. Yes, I remember.
Soc. And you admitted that being different they would have different subjects of knowledge ?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Then upon your own showing the rhapsode, and the art of the rhapsode, will not know everything ?
Ion. I should exclude certain things, Socrates.
Soc. You mean to say that you would exclude pretty much the subjects of the other arts. As he does not know all of them, which of them will he know ?
Ion. He will know what a man and what a woman ought to say, and what a freeman and what a slave ought to say, and what a ruler and what a subject.
Soc. Do you mean that a rhapsode will know better than the pilot what the ruler of a sea — tossed vessel ought to say ?
Ion. No ; the pilot will know best.
Soc. Or will the rhapsode know better than the physician what the ruler of a sick man ought to say ?
Ion. He will not.
Soc. But he will know what a slave ought to say ?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. Suppose the slave to be a cowherd ; the rhapsode will know better than the cowherd what he ought to say in order to soothe the infuriated cows ?
Ion. No, he will not.
Soc. But he will know what a spinning — woman ought to say about the working of wool ?
Ion. No.
Soc. At any rate he will know what a general ought to say when exhorting his soldiers ?
Ion. Yes, that is the sort of thing which the rhapsode will be sure to know.
Soc. Well, but is the art of the rhapsode the art of the general ?
Ion. I am sure that I should know what a general ought to say.
Soc. Why, yes, Ion, because you may possibly have a knowledge of the art of the general as well as of the rhapsode ; and you may also have a knowledge of horsemanship as well as of the lyre : and then you would know when horses were well or ill managed. But suppose I were to ask you : By the help of which art, Ion, do you know whether horses are well managed, by your skill as a horseman or as a performer on the lyre — what would you answer ?
Ion. I should reply, by my skill as a horseman.
Soc. And if you judged of performers on the lyre, you would admit that you judged of them as a performer on the lyre, and not as a horseman ?
Ion. Yes.
Soc. And in judging of the general’s art, do you judge of it as a general or a rhapsode ?
Ion. To me there appears to be no difference between them.
Soc. What do you mean ? Do you mean to say that the art of the rhapsode and of the general is the same ?
Ion. Yes, one and the same.
Soc. Then he who is a good rhapsode is also a good general ?
Ion. Certainly, Socrates.
Soc. And he who is a good general is also a good rhapsode ?
Ion. No ; I do not say that.
Soc. But you do say that he who is a good rhapsode is also a good general.
Ion. Certainly.
Soc. And you are the best of Hellenic rhapsodes ?
Ion. Far the best, Socrates.
Soc. And are you the best general, Ion ?
Ion. To be sure, Socrates ; and Homer was my master.
Soc. But then, Ion, what in the name of goodness can be the reason why you, who are the best of generals as well as the best of rhapsodes in all Hellas, go about as a rhapsode when you might be a general ? Do you think that the Hellenes want a rhapsode with his golden crown, and do not want a general ?
Ion. Why, Socrates, the reason is, that my countrymen, the Ephesians, are the servants and soldiers of Athens, and do not need a general ; and you and Sparta are not likely to have me, for you think that you have enough generals of your own.
Soc. My good Ion, did you never hear of Apollodorus of Cyzicus ?
Ion. Who may he be ?
Soc. One who, though a foreigner, has often been chosen their general by the Athenians : and there is Phanosthenes of Andros, and Heraclides of Clazomenae, whom they have also appointed to the command of their armies and to other offices, although aliens, after they had shown their merit. And will they not choose Ion the Ephesian to be their general, and honour him, if he prove himself worthy ? Were not the Ephesians originally Athenians, and Ephesus is no mean city ?