Tag: hedone

Soc. Shall the enquiry into these states of feeling be made the occasion of raising a question ? Pro. What question ? Soc. Whether we ought to say that the pleasures and pains of which we are speaking are true or false ? or some true and some false ? Pro. But how, Socrates, can…

PHILEBUS Persons of the Dialogue : SOCRATES ; PROTARCHUS ; PHILEBUS. The plan is complicated, or rather, perhaps, the want of plan renders the progress of the dialogue difficult to follow. A few leading ideas seem to emerge: the relation of the one and many, the four original elements, the kinds of pleasure, the kinds…

Soc. Then let us sum up and reassert what has been said, thus offering the third libation to the saviour Zeus. Pro. How ? Soc. Philebus affirmed that pleasure was always and absolutely the good. Pro. I understand ; this third libation, Socrates, of which you spoke, meant a recapitulation. Soc. Yes, but listen to…

Soc. And may we not say with reason that we are now at the vestibule of the habitation of the good ? Pro. I think that we are. Soc. What, then, is there in the mixture which is most precious, and which is the principal cause why such a state is universally beloved by all…

Soc. Then the perfect and universally eligible and entirely good cannot possibly be either of them ? Pro. Impossible. Soc. Then now we must ascertain the nature of the good more or less accurately, in order, as we were saying, that the second place may be duly assigned. Pro. Right. Soc. Have we not found…

Soc. In the next place, as to the mixture, here are the ingredients, pleasure and wisdom, and we may be compared to artists who have their materials ready to their hands. Pro. Yes. Soc. And now we must begin to mix them ? Pro. By all means. Soc. But had we not better have a…

Soc. And now, having subjected pleasure to every sort of test, let us not appear to be too sparing of mind and knowledge : let us ring their metal bravely, and see if there be unsoundness in any part, until we have found out what in them is of the purest nature ; and then…

Soc. But what do you say of another question : — have we not heard that pleasure is always a generation, and has no true being ? Do not certain ingenious philosophers teach this doctrine, and ought not we to be grateful to them ? Pro. What do they mean ? Soc. I will explain…

Pro. Then we had better proceed to analyze this family of pleasures. Soe. You mean the pleasures which are mingled with pain ? Pro. Exactly. Soc. There are some mixtures which are of the body, and only in the body, and others which are of the soul, and only in the soul ; while there…

Soc. Next let us see whether in another direction we may not find pleasures and pains existing and appearing in living beings, which are still more false than these. Pro. What are they, and how shall we find them ? Soc. If I am not mistaken, I have often repeated that pains and aches and…

Soc. We must next examine what is their place and under what conditions they are generated. And we will begin with pleasure, since her class was first examined ; and yet pleasure cannot be rightly tested apart from pain ever Pro. If this is the road, let us take it. Soc. I wonder whether you…

Soc. And now what is the next question, and how came we hither ? Were we not enquiring whether the second place belonged to pleasure or wisdom ? Pro. We were. Soc. And now, having determined these points, shall we not be better able to decide about the first and second place, which was the…

Soc. Well, but had we not better leave her now, and not pain her by applying the crucial test, and finally detecting her ? Pro. Nonsense, Socrates. Soc. Why ? because I said that we had better not pain pleasure, which is an impossibility ? Pro. Yes, and more than that, because you do not…

Soc. If you say that, I have nothing to apprehend, for the words “if you are willing” dispel all my fear ; and, moreover, a god seems to have recalled something to my mind. Phi. What is that ? Soc. I remember to have heard long ago certain discussions about pleasure and wisdom, whether awake…

Phi. The illustration, Protarchus, has assisted me in understanding the original statement, but I still feel the defect of which I just now complained. Soc. Are you going to ask, Philebus, what this has to do with the argument ? Phi. Yes, that is a question which Protarchus and I have been long asking. Soc.…

Pro. I think that I partly understand you Socrates, but I should like to have a clearer notion of what you are saying. Soc. I may illustrate my meaning by the letters of the alphabet, Protarchus, which you were made to learn as a child. Pro. How do they afford an illustration ? Soc. The…

Pro. Then, Socrates, let us begin by clearing up these questions. Soc. That is what I should wish. Pro. And I am sure that all my other friends will be glad to hear them discussed ; Philebus, fortunately for us, is not disposed to move, and we had better not stir him up with questions.…